asami’s gonna get her chance to really develop by the time the series is over that’s basically a guarantee
keep in mind that in a:tla not all the characters developed fully until book 3 (especially sokka i mean why does everyone forget this)
keep in mind that in book 1 bolin barely got paid attention to writing-wise and in book 2 he was everywhere (and he did develop, not exactly a huge 180 but still it’s a little development and that’s something)
so asami will get her time
unless the love triangle gets resurrected a third time (which i seriously doubt i mean really) i have complete confidence that the writers will pay attention to her
if not in book 3 then at least SOMEWHERE before the series finale
let’s all just calm the fuck down now
Maybe this is why Kya and Bumi didn’t have the fondest memories of their childhood.
Someone take photoshop away from me.
Aang and Bumi reuniting with their pets.
So I’ve seen the word “retcon” and “changed” and “that was how it was” tossed about in regards to the Avatar State’s presentation from the original series…
"The Avatar State is a defense mechanism, designed to empower you with the skills and knowledge of all the past Avatars. The glow is a combination of all your past lives focusing their energy through your body."
This is what Roku said. As a character in the show. Who is established, at other points, to be far from omniscient (I am referring, of course, to his confusion as to where Aang was when he was meditating on the Lion Turtle).
The thing about the past lives is that they are limited to the knowledge that they possessed. So when Roku instructs Aang on what the Avatar State is, he is probably reciting what he was told, and what people believed it to be—remember that the story of Raava and Wan was lost in history. Probably between Kuruk and Kyoshi, or Kyoshi and Roku (Kuruk instructed Korra to find Raava, so he must have known…and considering that he went to the Spirit World to fight Koh and lived at the North Pole with the oasis, there are a great many ways that he could have known about this). So what Roku told Aang was what he was aware of, or what he believed.
#people should really just stop listening to Roku#and this might confirm the one headcanon that Kuruk never gave Kyoshi good advice#I can see him completely neglecting to tell her the story of how the Avatar came to be#she lives for over two centuries and he never tells her
wow wtf kuruk - dropping the ball again
THANK YOU SWAN<3
also this is kinda how story writing works…well…people might disagree with me on this cause i have this weird opposition because of my one creative writing prof to stories as being ‘perfectly planned.’ but basically, like life, you can’t plan for everything - stories need to evolve organically. and contradictions happen. that’s actually normal. and in this case it didn’t bother me.
sean if you’re reading this which you aren’t feel free to add something about coherent contradiction expressing the force of a desire
no surprise for the writer, no surprise for the reader
this is why literally i mean literally every story ever told has some contradictions or plot holes. which drives people crazy. but it’s really best if you learn to embrace this as a fact of life (yay poststructuralism)
but fandom’s aversion to this is also totally normal. and of course it only complicates matters when people already feel negatively about lok - a sequel series some don’t even want to view as canon, period. which is honestly fine - that’s your right. that’s how i’ve been approaching the promise and the search comics myself.
buuuut does that mean your opinion is the solely definitive one on whether this makes the text that is lok arguably well-written or not…no. that’s just one take on it. in this case multiple opinions are completely valid. but no one in fandom tends to want to talk like this, and this is how fan wars happen. so enjoy. if that’s what you’re into.
Unalaq what are you doing
I need ideas and I’m trying to get my Korra Nation score up so yeah :3
Only rule about A:TLA is I don’t do Zutara under any circumstances. Sorry. That’s non-negotiable.
I have no idea how long this is going to be open but go ahead and send me requests! :D
You can’t choose what stays and what fades away
And I’d do anything to make you stay
No Light, No Light - Florence and the Machine
You can’t choose what stays and what fades away
And I’d do anything to make you stay
No Light, No Light - Florence and the Machine
saysorryrat asked: I feel like ATLA took kissing very seriously while in TLOK everybody kisses everybody
The difference in how romance is handled between ATLA and LOK I think is indicative of how storytelling is approached between the two series.
Romance in ATLA was taken seriously. It was planned out thoroughly. The female characters were treated with respect and had agency. The romance arcs were emotionally poignant and added a lot to the story. Think how much impact Yue & Sokka’s arc had, Mai and Zuko’s too and of course Aang and Katara. All of their romance plot lines were so well thought out and added an extra dimension to the series. Even if you didn’t like some of those pairings I think most would admit they added something worthwhile to the series.
Compare those stories to the love triangle. To Ginger and Bolin’s “romance”. Bolin and Eska. Mako and Asami. The difference in storytelling quality is stark and undeniable. I’ve never seen such toxic relationships handled with such flippancy and ~humour~. The fact Bryke seems to think the reason people didn’t like these ‘romances’ is because cause the fandom can’t take a joke just makes the situation infinitely worse. But I’ll discuss that later, there’s a whole interview recently released that goes into this.
So yes. You’re spot on. Romance in ATLA was handled with much more care and authenticity than it was in LOK.
Light and Dark
Okay, I need to complain about part of the latest interview:
There’s also continuing interest in whomever Korra is dating. Diane Pangilinan @twinklelydy asked “do u have any plans for developing Korra’s love life?”
Konietzko: It seems to me that people are uninterested in that. They get completely angry when we have fun with the teen romance stuff. I don’t know. I’m going to leave that alone.
It may seem a little weird that people would be interested in a cartoon character’s dating habits, but I think some fans do really care.
Konietzko: This is my new theory. Fans are more interested in imagining relationships between a myriad of pairings. But they’re profoundly disinterested in seeing any of those things manifest themselves on the show. So who knows, whatever. Mike and I as writers, we wrote it the way we found it to be entertaining, and that struck a chord with some, but maybe not with some others.
Okay, I’m not going to lie. It really upsets me that this is what they think.
The fans love shipping. To pretend that they don’t because they were upset with how the romance is written in Korra is completely missing the point.
I think there are two main problems with romance in Korra, and they have to do with
1) Plot balance and relevance and
2) Objectification of female characters
Fans also don’t want the romance to overshadow the main plot. That was a big problem in Book 1. I would not have had nearly as much of a problem with the love triangle in Book 1 if it hadn’t taken screen time away from the equalist plotline, which it clearly did because the ending was rushed and there was a lot that was unresolved. The romance balance was great up through episode 3, after which everything went to hell. I love Asami a lot, but it would have been better if she was introduced as something other than Mako’s love interest. I don’t mind Asami and Mako having a relationship, but I do mind Asami being defined by her relationship to Mako. They could easily have introduced Asami in another way and then worked the romance in later.
Also, there was a huge problem in Book 2 with the treatment of women as romantic objects and nothing else. This was blatantly obvious with Ginger, but it also happened with Eska. Ginger was my biggest disappointment with Book 2: Bolin kissed Ginger without her permission, royally pissed her off, only to have her magically fall for him in the end? She played literally no other role in the storyline other than to be Bolin’s plaything, and that bothered me. Why didn’t she have more of a backbone? Why couldn’t she slap some sense into Bolin and tell him that not every girl is magically going to love him and that he doesn’t have the right to kiss her without her consent? She started to tell him that but not only did he not listen, but she seemed to just forget her disgust with him which seemed really shallow. Her character was just so irrelevant that I don’t know where to begin.
Then we have Eska. Why did she have to treat Bolin so badly? Why did the romance have to be her only relevance to the plot? She was honestly so unnecessary that it could have just been Desna and it wouldn’t have changed anything about the story. Couldn’t she have done more? There were some great examples of romantic subplots in A:TLA that did this perfectly. Example 1: Yue. She and Sokka had a thing, but she was also a strong, devoted leader of her people who made her own decisions and put her responsibility above romantic feelings. Example 2: Mai. She was in a relationship with Zuko, but she was introduced as a friend of Azula’s and her character dynamic involved a lot of tension with her family, with Azula, and yes, also some romance. But she was not a romantic object. There are plenty more, but you get the idea. So far the only woman in LoK that isn’t defined by who she is dating is Korra…and that’s kind of sad.
If any of the creators see this, I want to be clear that I am a huge fan of Korra and I love the characters and the story. I will never love a series more than A:TLA and I have been closely following Korra with much enthusiasm. But I think it is important to not discount what the fans are saying. Sure, during A:TLA a lot of the fans complained about not seeing “their ship” but that is not what the complaints are about with Korra from what I have seen. The important thing I’m trying to say here is that just having a female protagonist does not mean the show is progressive or feminist, and that when writing a romance, keep in mind that the female characters are people and need to be complex.
Tl;dr Romance is fantastic as long as the female characters involved have agency and plot relevance and are not defined by their involvement in romance.
We took a trip up to LA and ended up with Vaatu….BEST TRIP EVER!
This is awesome!
the legend of korra does women so dirty.
desna and eska have a mother and the fact that she’s so inconsequential is treated like a joke
asami is a prop who is disrespected by everyone around her and no one cares
ginger is assaulted by bolin but he still gets rewarded by her affection at the end
katara has every last drop of personality sucked away from her and shows up to i don’t know make atla fans feel sad
lin’s competence and characterization is fucked with just to prop up mako as the greatest cop ever in the history of everdom
women aren’t the majority movers and shakers in the plot the men are
women don’t have strong relationships to one another and if they do they aren’t given any importance in the plot
korra herself has a decent arc but that’s not enough for me
i don’t want to see one well developed female character i want to see numerous well developed female characters and this show can’t even do the minimum
Everything here I agree with. But what if that’s how the time period is? The world is becoming modern and it’s sort of close to ours. Even here was had a time where women were treated with disrespect and being objectified, somewhat close to that time, even today.
I know these types of things wasn’t shown much in atla, in fact, the women of atla were dignified and broke all stereotypes to show how strong women can by their own will, but I don’t know.
The “what if that’s how the time period is?” argument needs to be thoroughly debunked. Not because this is a fictional world and the creators can choose to create whatever characters they want and give those characters whatever significant roles they want, but because it’s completely “off” as an argument, anyway.
As you note, even today and in the past women have been treated with disrespect and objectified. But that doesn’t mean women didn’t play important roles in history. Women continued to work with what agency and social capital they had and played proactive roles in determining their fates. It’s history makers who have done us all the disservice of pretending that women don’t do anything important when they are marginalized. This is something that Avatar: The Last Airbender actively subverted by showing characters like Katara, Toph, Yue, and Ursa making decisions even if they had more limited options than the men in their world.
While writing Avatar: The Last Airbender the writing team was able to take a close look at their story and rewrite two character concepts so that Katara was not the only woman character in the series. They changed the concepts of Toph and Azula from boys to girls and added characters like Ty Lee and Mai. The writers could have been just as thoughtful with The Legend of Korra - Spirits.
For example, they could have revised the story so that Senna was the heir to the Northern Water Tribe, and Unulaq her younger brother. In Spirits, we never understood why Unulaq wanted to depose Tonraq. If Unulaq’s older sibling had been Senna, a callback could have been made to the consequences of Katara’s actions at the North Pole in A:TLA. The regressive gender politics of the historical Northern Water Tribe would have been a believable motivation for Unulaq stealing the right to rule from an older sister and first woman heir to the water tribe. Senna fleeing to the South and the South’s desire for independence would have paralleled how Kanna fled to the South in A:TLA. Senna could have been engaged in the rebellion storyline as a powerful waterbender. Instead, we see Tonraq leading an all-male Southern Water Tribe rebellion while Senna stays out of the way, and the conflict between Unulaq and Tonraq echoes the Water Tribe brother conflict that we saw play out in Book 1 with Tarlokk and Amon.
Another option the showrunners could have taken, but did not, was to make President Raiko a woman instead of a man. This could have illustrated an interesting change in leadership and gender politics in Republic City (going from a Council that only had one woman on it to a woman president.) The role this character played could just as easily have been filled by a woman character. Instead, we get President Raiko and his First Lady, Buttercup, who is depicted as easily charmed by Varrick in contrast to her wiser husband. After being kidnapped, Buttercup doesn’t show up again when Raiko is doing his tactical surveillance (when Bolin brags about his heroic antics, it’s about saving the President and not the President and the First Lady. At least Joo Lee does a thing.)
It doesn’t make sense that Katara would not be deeply engaged in negotiating the political situation between the two Water Tribes. And why not let her be proactive in the fight. Master Waterbender Katara trained two Avatars in waterbending and was likely instrumental in helping Aang negotiate diplomatic situations as partner to the Avatar. The argument that she is an “older adult who is retired” doesn’t make sense— King Bumi was 100 years old and still a diplomat and fighter. Actually, it would have been easy to substitute Katara in any of Tonraq’s scenes without greatly impacting the plot. (Katara even has an established history of fomenting rebellions!)
It’s not the “time period.” It’s the writers’ choices and decisions. There were a lot of options available to them.
Good commentary above, but I’d also like to make the point clear that there’s a difference between IN-UNIVERSE disrespect and side-lining of women, and NARRATIVE disrespect of women.
The first would make the time period issue a legitimate point, because women WERE treated poorly in that time and did have fewer options available to them. Strong and complex women still exist and still take proactive action to determine their own fate, but exist in an environment which works against them, which is inherent in the story itself.
However, the OP is talking about the narrative disrespect of women, which is, essentially, that the writers and direction of story-telling, on a meta scale, actively work against the women in their story. The women get less screen time, their plot and character arcs given less importance, their characterization relies on pre-existing stereotypes in the audience’s mind, and their relationships are less developed than those involving men. In this case, it’s not just the universe they live in disrespecting these women and working against them, it’s the very fabric of the story itself, and the choices the WRITERS make which limit the potential they have to carry their own plots via their own actions.
This is an interesting and important distinction to make.
While I loved season two, the treatment of female characters (other than Korra and Jinora) was a big problem for me and I think this is valid criticism.